Ultraschall in English?


#1

Hello everyone!

(Apologies as I don’t speak or understand any German so I hope I’m posting in the right place…)
I’ve recently started using Ultraschall and absolutely love the project!

However, I find it a struggle to use without English documentation or tutorials and this is something I would really like to work on.
I was thinking of what the best way to do this would be - maybe creating a small English speaking user group on Slack or Telegram?

I’m sure this is something you’ve already discussed…
Would love to hear other input or ideas! :slight_smile:


#2

Hello Jon, I don’t think it’s a problem if you can’t express yourself in German. For single persons and here in the sendegate this is certainly no reason to worry.

But just imagine, in the USA there would suddenly be a four-digit number of Ultraschall users. Certainly nice, but Ultraschall is a non-commercial project, supported by people who do the work (not little amount of work) on the side.

If the support effort increases due to the increased number of users, including many who don’t speak German, then this is at the expense of the community, at the expense of the developers, testers, people who do documentation and support. It is at the expense of the release cycles.

It should be possible to translate both the user interface and the documentation into English.

In addition, there are different production habits: We in Germany often and often lose chaptermarks. I would find it extremely unpleasant to find myself in a situation where resources have to be divided between different versions (German and English) because the feature sets are different, as are the priorities.

That’s why I find your suggestion of an adaptation of the documentation by the English speaking users useful, as long as there are no development requirements from this community.

Podcasts in Germany are in many cases non-commercial and in my opinion this is a good thing and should remain so. In the USA this is different, many want to earn money with it. Completely different mentality and way of thinking! I don’t want to see and experience that with us.

If there are then discussions about commercially usable features, I would be very deterred.
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Hallo Jon, ich dnke nicht, das es ein Problem darstellt, wenn Du Dich nicht in Deutsch äußern kannst. Für einzelne Personen und hier im Sendegate ist das sicher kein Grund, sich Sorgen zu machen.

Aber stell Dir mal vor, in den USA würde plötzlich eine vierstelligen Anzahl Ultraschallnutzer hinzukommen. Sicherlich schön, aber Ultraschall ist ein nichtkommerzielles Projekt, getragen von Personen, die die Arbeit (nicht wenig Arbeit) nebenbei machen.

Wenn durch die gewachsene Nutzerzahl, darunter Viele, die kein Deutsch sprechen können, der Supportaufwand steigt, dann geht das zu Lasten der Cummunity, zu Lasten der Entwickler, tester, Personen die dokumentieren. Es geht zu Lasten der Releasezyklen.

Es sollte möglich sein, sowohl das User Interface, als auch die Dokumentation ins Englische zu übersetzen.

Hinzu kommen unterschiedliche Gewohnheiten bei der Produktion: Wir in Deutschland verwednen häufig und oft Kapitalmarken, in den USA ist das eher ungebräuchlich. Ich fände es ausgesprochen unschön, in die Situation zu geraten, dass die Ressourcen auf unterschiedliche Versionen (deutsch und englisch) aufgeteilt werden müssten, weil die Featuresets unterschiedlich sind, ebenso die Prioritäten.

Deswegen finde ich deinen Vorschlag einer Anpassung der Dokumentation durch die englischsprachigen Nutzer sinnvoll, solange aus diese Community keine Anforderungen an die Entwicklung gestellt werden.

Podcasts sind in Deutschland in vielen Fällen nichtkommerziell und meiner Meinung nach, ist das gut so und sollte auch so bleiben. In den USA ist das anders, viele wollen damit Geld verdienen. Ganz andere Mentaliträt und Denkweise! Die will ich bei uns nicht sehen und erleben.

Wenn es dann Diskussionen um kommerziell nutzbare Features gibt, wäre ich sehr abgeschreckt.


#3

Maybe we should add an english-speaking section here at the Sendegate for that? What do you think @rstockm


#4

Thanks for your reply Arvid. I wasn’t aware of the friction between commercial and non-commercial audiences and the concerns you shared sound quite valid.

I’ve also had a look at some of the previous conversations with the help of google translate and can see a lot of this was brought up before.


#5

I recently wrote some lines in the REAPER forum:

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=2070544&postcount=77


#6

Hi Jon, glad to see, that your’e not repelled so far.

As for translations, the best site currently available for DE-EN-DE translations is deepl.com.


#7

I would be in favor, but we should also make it clear that there is no need for a support site from the German-speaking community to develop from this.


#8

5 Beiträge wurden in ein neues Thema verschoben: Debatte: Größe des Podcastmarktes in Deutschland


#9

Danke für das Aufteilen.


#10

Hm, ein sendegate-Account auf ask.fm? :smiley:


#11

“Hm, a Sendegate-account at ask.fm? :smiley:

This would be an idea. I also thought of opening an official thread in the reaper.fm-forum meanwhile.

This could be a good start…

@jonbstrong what do you think about a thread at reaper.fm


#12

I have a deep dislike for these ideas. You’ll pass them a finger and they’ll eat whole your arm.

Either we do it right or we don’t do it at all.

As long as we lack an “enterprise” support model, I see no benefit in addressing the US in any way. And as I stated several times before: this is my 4th major open source project. With the others it went down the drain as soon as it was about money. I don’t want to see this happen again.


#13

When talking about an english-speaking section for the forum I assume this is about connecting to the Sendegate in general?

If this is just about Ultraschall: You can’t really stop enthusiastic users from promoting it to an English-speaking userbase. But if the people behind the project don’t want to be stuck with support requests once the enthusiasm has run out, it’s indeed best not to open a section for this specific purpose here.


#14

Ich denke, dass erst dann sinnvoll sein könnte, eine englischsprachige Sektion hier zu eröffnen, wenn wir einige Dokumentationsbestandlei in English vorliegen haben. Desweiteren bliebe zu diskutieren und ggf. klarzustellen, in welcher Form Support geleistet werden kann oder eben nicht.

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I think it might be useful to open an English section here only when we have some documentation in English. Furthermore I would like to discuss and clarify in which form support can be provided or not.


#15

Hi, I use Ultraschall to edit my podcast, I also speak german but English is my main language.

I understand the worries about getting “too popular,” but don’t you want people to use the software you make? I don’t think that there will be any requests to make a separate software based on distinct needs of American vs. German podcast cultures. The Americans can just not use the chapter functions.

The software itself is already in English, it’s just a question of documentation and website. You could even post a big disclaimer that no official support will be given in English.


#16

I tend to disagree. It’s not about the chapter markers. It’s about the routing matrix, for instance:

"I want to use StudioLink but I don’t get it. It’s too complicated! Could we have a chat about it? I run a $dollar business, so shut up and take my money!"

Not to mention class action lawsuites because of lost recordings.

Yep, “just” the documentation. Please keep in mind: there is no proper written documentation in German, either. It’s badly needed, but we just don’t have time and resources. To make things worse, we don’t even have a german “why Ultraschall” trailer in German, running for 5 minutes. I pray to the community “we need this, can somebody make this?” and the feedback is always exactly zero.

So what are the chances, that somebody will translate and re-record my 30 hours of screencasts?

If someone starts a series of englisch screencasts, or writes a wiki documentation I will not stop him. But it wont happen, and we as the core group lack the time, resources and motivation to support a second language for we can’t support German in the first place the way it should be.


#17

Part of the question is if there’s a way to get English speakers involved in the way you are talking about. Speaking for myself it is very easy to translate the website or put together basic technical documentation. Screencasts? Forget it. To be honest - don’t take this the wrong way - I find screencasts and videos to be essentially useless as documentation. They aren’t searchable, they are long, and it’s tough to find what you need in them.


#18

If there is no German documentation, an English one would be preferable to having none at all. But since there is no text to start from, you need people familiar with Ultraschall. If the developers cannot invest the time, it comes down to English-speaking users (probably mostly Germans) that you need to convince to compile their knowledge of the software into a documentation. Maybe start with the content of the screencasts to create a framework that can be expanded. That would help some portion of the German-language community too. But I don’t see how English users not already familiar with Ultraschall will be able to help with this work.

As an aside:

A time-coded transcript will help. Also short screencasts accompanying a documentation are really gold.


#19

Translating the website: yes. Put together basic technical documentation? Well.
A good starting point would be our changelog - already translated to englisch:


#20

i’d be seriously interested to collaborate on an english docu. could we set up a wiki or something and just set it up so we can start filling it?